Well that is the inherent problem in designing ships for a specific narrow role. Instead of designing 4 good ships you design a role and make 4 racial variants of that. One of them(with luck 2) will always be the best at it and the rest can be pretty much ignored. Since this time the designed role relies heavily on minmatar strengths, it's natural that minmatar is one of the better choices. I'm not saying it doesn't need some tweaking, but it's unlikely to change the outcome, since the role naturally favors them.

You do realize that you could just, I dunno, train that giant ******* gap in your skillset where hybrid turrets should be.

Don't whine to CCP because you were too lazy to train hybrids. They're going to be less broken once the Naga is out, so you actually may have a desire to do so.

Its OK, a petition is being passed around atm.

Make it fair!...Make it Missiles!

Missile Pilots want Equality!

Naga needs a 100% Hybrid Turret NERF!


/signed

People are forgetting that the only original complaint about the Torpedo Naga was that it has difficulties applying the damage, i.e. torpedoes are slow. This is easy to fix with role bonuses that makes torpedoes reach their max range quicker rather than chugging along at the same speed as a MWDing Naga.

Dude I literally just went on SiSi and flew a neutron blaster naga. It wasn't half bad-- big tank, speedy ~*enough*~, has 37km range (or somwhere in there) with null. Does decent DPS. I don't know what you guys are complaining about, especially since torpedoes are literally the most god-awful weapon system ever and won't do any damage to anything smaller than an MWDing dread.

Hell, it's even got Ferox factor-- some frigate pilot was all "hey look a terrible ship" and burned right at my Naga when I warped to a combat site at range, resulting in his immediate blapping.

All true, and it misses the point. Everyone, including CCP, knows that Torps and Cruise missiles have huge issues -- this is why no one uses them. The solution is not to abandon missiles and all the people who spent months or years training them.

The solution is to fix the freaking missile problem.

The whole point of this so-called new direction is that CCP is supposed to have STOPPED this kind of half-assed bullshit. Yet here, again, we see that this is not the case.

I'm not asking to have the explosion velocity bonus back. That's fine, it can do without. Just give double-quick missiles and +50% torpedo velocity; having 2 extra bonuses is no problem for a ship that has one of two mutually exclusive weapon systems.

Then the Caldari pilots are functionally ******** and willfully ignorant. Here's how the breakdown actually works assuming competent non-morons:

Amarr train lasers and missiles
Gallente train hybrids and drones
Caldari train hybrids and missiles
Minmatar train projectiles and missiles

If you really want to enjoy EVE Online: A Complex Game, you train some of everything, since even beyond these general patterns each race has certain ships that require additional skillsets (Gallente / Minmatar need to train shield and armor tanking skills, for example. Certain Amarr boats make extensive use of drones. And then there are the pirate ships, which just use random mixes of everything.

Sometimes, you have to train things. Deal with it.

I find it sad that the typical Gallente pilot, with zero Caldari ship command skills, can fit and fly a naga faster than the typical Caldari pilot.

True Caldari pilots have hybrid skills. You are not a Caldari pilot.

if someone wants to use hybrid, use the gallante cruiser....

Validity doesn't apply, we're all throwing out opinions based on our own prejudices. & my answer is a simple one. Variety.

Hybrid, Lazors, & Projectile capable pilots have a ship to fly. Those in Missiles don't. The reasoning has been primarily because missiles suck, in other words, would not fulfill the original purpose these ships were meant to serve. That saying, its still questionable whether the Talos will either.
In the end whether or not all the ships are able to perform "there intended" function, 1 or 2 ships, in this case the Tornado & maybe the Oracle, will overshadow the Talos & the Naga, hybrid or Launcher, unless further changes are made.

With the current game mechanics, maybe a hybrid Naga does perform better than a missile Naga.
As I said before, if CCP''s going to roll out a hybrid Naga for now, & will consider adding missile options later when they get around to making BS Missiles PvP compatible, its probably ok. Otherwise that's just them saying fixing missiles is just too hard work & we won't do it. That's not very good for the game. & in all honesty, with the "buffed hybrids" still a mess, getting around to missiles is a bit of a pipe dream.
So I say, let the missile capable pilots die in their Nagas. Us Hybrid pilots have 1 ship to play with, even if it needs improvements. Having 2 hybrid ships not only puts the 2 in direct competition (a battle of losers in my view, where there's no prize to be gained - like football spectators fighting while the actual players duke it out - looking at you Tornado & Oracle) with type of tank being the only distinction, its also boring.

TL:DR Let all the main weapon systems be represented for some variety. Despite CCP trying to pigeonhole these new BCs for a specific role, us players will likely choose the best of the lot for that purpose, & find another uses for the rest, if their lucky.

p.s. For a more selfish & irrational reasoning, being a Gallente pilot, I dislike the idea of a Caldari ship having a hybrid platform, which also may turn out to be better than our Hybrid platform. As bad as they are, Hybrids have traditionally been strongest amongst the Gallente. I want to keep it that way. But thats just possessive ol me.

Then you can complain that your torps don't hit anything and your ship always dies in a fire? Without the range, damage, and radial bonus a torp boat will be worthless. Go read up on the first half of this thread- exactly how terrible the Naga was EVEN WITH BONUSES.



Wait.. wait wait wait wait wait..

Are you posting the position that you are upset still that this ship doesn't have slots for what you want to do, and that thing you wanted to do was not even what the ship was intended to do in the first place?

That's like being mad that Jeep didn't make the Cherokee fast enough to use on a race track.


I'm sorry, but it's your fault for skilling only missiles and caldari ships.

Why do all Caldari pilots think that Crap Hybirds are the main weapon sytem of Gallente it's not its are secondary weapon system too. Drones are the main Gallente weapon system.

Why do all Caldari pilots think that Crap Hybirds are the main weapon sytem of Gallente it's not its are secondary weapon system too. Drones are the main Gallente weapon system.

And also instead of counting how many Hybird bonus ships there are why not try looking into the fact that only One hybird ships at each tech level and class are used and only one drone ship is used in each class.

Then take another step back to get a even better look at what Gallente ships are truely being used.

Can you guess what the most used Gallente ships are? Dominix? Myrmidon? Vexor? Ishtar? Lachesis/Arazu witch are EW ships.

And I will be truethfull and say I dont know much about how the Gallente frigs work as I only ever fly the Covert Ops ones both for bomber and scaning.

And weather or not Hybirds have been broken for the last two years makes no differnts becouse Drones have been broken over the last two years as well with no good way to raise are Drone dps to match that of projectiles and lazers.

No drone hardwiring.

No drone dmg modules or a rework of drone ships to double the bandwidth and bays and adding drone control units to them. Ether way this would go along way bring drone dps up to par with Projectiles and Lazers. The drone dmg modules should be low slots like all other dmg modules and probly would be both the best for lag and easyest for all to grasp and understand.

Only Sentry drone dmg rigs.

No tech 2 drone modules at least till this expation but then again Hybirds probly got buffed around as much as drones did by finely get tech 2 modules.

Naga:
I see why the reluctance with cruise (I would love it) but I can see why not - if the intended prey of the new ships are BS.
If I want a rail platform I would pick the rokh over the naga.
That means I would drop the hybrid from them all together and focus on torp.

If you give them a +damage bonus, then it makes the raven look bad.

So the only thing left, is to give them a range bonus.
But what about giving them two?
Flight time and velocity?
Then they would become a "torp sniper" (ish).

I would also give all torps 10% more range and take the range bonus off Raven/Widow (net no effect)
and replace it with a straight +damage ontop of the +rof but then, I like missiles

You still don't get it, hybrids are the primary Gallente weapon. What next? are you going to claim that Minmatars primary weapon are missiles because some of their ships have missile bonuses? Or maybe Amarr use drones as a primary weapon, they have something which even Gallente don't, ships with no weapon apart from the bonused drones.

Your idea of focusing the Talos on drones is a bad idea to, if it was drone specialised it could very well end up completely useless outside of solo or very small gang PvP.

"Guys guys take it on my word as a caldari pilot-- the way to fix eve is to give the Raven 20 missile hardpoints and change missiles so they do full damage to MWDing interceptors. Gallente should be forced to use drones and railguns should remain utterly useless!"

Getout you badspelling moron.

:frogbarf:

e: this forum needs negrep. Badly.

The Talos is funny, because once it gets to a certain range. Most tier 3 battle-cruisers cannot track other teir 3 battle-cruiser. Talos and Naga can do that way better than the others. Thing is, the Naga can do it @ close, medium and long range (with web).

Why are people complaining about sacrificing tank for a web?

This is not a solo game. its a massive multiplayer game. Just pay one of your corp mates to fly around in a rifter with some webs to slow down your targets.

I was looking forward to the naga but then it was made a rail platform i died a little inside

I'm not training gunnery when i'm specced in missiles :/

Seriously?

Look my friend, nobody ever said they were designed to go toe to toe with a Rattlesnake.